Topix.com, the message board company that gives new depth of meaning to the term “bottom dweller,” has reached an agreement with a number of states that have complained about the site’s policy of charging consumers who want abusive posts removed.
According to the Baltimore Sun, Topix has agreed to remove abusive posts in three business days, as opposed to the 10 to 14 days it takes now. It will also drop its effort to charge people for expediting their removal. (Tribune Co. journalists, by the way, can say they are proud to work for a company that is part owner of such an enlightened online commentary outfit. ).
So that means if some Internet troll posts some sort of abusive item such as “Chris Tolles beats his children,” it will be removed — at no charge — only after it has traveled the globe three times and raised suspicion even among those who know him.
After administering The Courant’s Topix program for about a year and observing its regular violation of every journalistic ethic, I think I can safely opine that this new agreement is an effort to polish a turd, and will achieve a similar result.
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You and your ilk have dysfunctional ethics around business which only existed during a narrow time when newspapers enjoyed local monopolies. The idea that it is somehow better for journalists to get to decide what is presented and discussed in public is nauseating.
Our Constitution discusses freedom of the press in the context of the day – when newspapers were directed partisan attack vehicles. The newspaper you worked for was notable in the publishing of anonymous commentary 300 years ago, and the man who built the media empire which bought it, Col. McCormick would likely be much more in tune with my view of the press than yours.
News is a weapon too important to leave to people who can’t even figure out how to run a profitable business.
I employ people and support livelihoods on what we do. The idea that somehow it is immoral to provide a forum for people is just arrogant and foolish.
The world is changing and you and yours are fading and will be forgotten by the billions of people enjoying the interaction they now exercise. The battle is won, the gate is crashed.
Chris Tolles
CEO Topix
Moving backward in history is not my idea of social or business progress.
And I am not suggesting that providing a forum for people is immoral. I’m saying, flat out, that it is unethical and opportunist to provide, for profit, a forum for bigots, racists, anti-Semites, and homophobes. And that goes double for any so-called journalistic enterprise — the newspapers that use Topix in association with their stories — that does so.
Charging the victims to have abusive remarks removed more quickly is the ethical equivalent of running over someone in the street, then charging him for the ambulance ride.
Thanks for writing.
That Tolles feller strikes me as a whore, and believe me, I know whores.
Actually, to call him a whore is to insult whores.
Fred Garvin, MP
The problem is in how Topix conducts business. Many of the forums are just flat out trash with tons of libel, attacks on children, forums that promote the selling of illegal drugs, incest, etc. All Mr.Tolles and company would have to do is require registration and have people use a valid email address that can be verified (not one of the free ones where people can keep on making new ones) and have a little accountabilty. He would then have a good company. I am sorry but post about “ho’s” or whatever is not good business. The forums are still not being cleaned up in a timely manner. I read an idea someone had that I thought was good. Eliminate the forums that have a limited amount of original posts (say under a thousand various topics) and get rid of those forums making easier to police the active forums and require registration. Topix would be a much better site. Instead the vast majority of people, including many who post on it, see it as nothing more than a joke of a site. That is not a good business model.
With all due respect, just because Topix is a “new business model” does not mean it is a better model. The problem I have with Topix is the fact it is a lawless “society.” The recent alleged policy concerning Topix states changes were made because of cyberbullying. Well Topix is right cyberbullying is a major,serious problem and Topix had an opportunity to lead by example and make real change. They chose to take the easy way out. The current policy states they will remove abusive posts in three days. According to Topix they want to fight cyberbullying. That is a farce. Cyberbullying can destroy a life almost immediately so three days is far too long and actually Topix is still not removing posts that quickly. If the company truly wants to work with the Attorney Generals and have a model for good business require registration and remove forums that have little news and a ton of gossip. Topix doesn’t want to do that. Topix would be far more successful in the long run if they had some ethics, they chose to make the fast buck.
To me it is quite simple. Even many of the people who use that site believe the forums should be cleaned up and registration required with moderation. Topix has such a bad reputation overall you would think that would mean something. The product could be so much better.
I like your post and your response to Tolles, Paul. I was interested in Tolles’ statement that ‘News is a weapon too important to leave to people who can’t even figure out how to run a profitable business.’ Who does that weapon serve, and who is it directed at? Is he talking about news as propaganda, or some of the more hateful, bullying material that shows up on Topix boards?
J.Parker you nailed it in my opinion. If you go to many of the forums particularly in the smaller towns you are lucky to see more than a handful of actual newsstories (and in some cases none at all). All you see is a bunch of bullying and hate posts such as “who is the biggest ho in town” etc. They need to rethink the model but requiring registration or getting rid of the forums that are nothing but gossip and hate. The Attorney Generals keep coming after Topix and that should tell you all you need to know. All they would have to do (and others have commented on this) is require registration and moderate the posts and Topix would be a far better company. The advertisers would like it, The AG’s would like it, and those of us who can’t stand the trash on that site may be more apt to use it.
and this Chris Tolles: “The idea that somehow it is immoral to provide a forum for people is just arrogant and foolish.”
It IS immoral to provide a forum without ethics, as Topix is. You are therefore as arrogant and foolish as you are claiming others to be.
It is hilarious that Tolles uses Topix and news in the same sentence and thinks that they are equivalent.
Topix is the trash can of the Internet, a virtual junk heap full of gossip, lies, insults and promotion of illegal activity.
Not to worry, Tolles will get his due, just as Craigslist has come under the microscope of the law because of the serial killer who used it to find his victims. Topix has no limits and will go too far, and those who participate will be held responsible.
Chris Tolles is bragging about his business model based on extortion???
If blood and guts and vulgarity are what float your boat, Mr. Tolles, we have a GOP Senate candidate who you ought to go and work for. Just don’t pretend you can sell “news as a weapon” or whatever it is you’re doing as “journalism.”
It would appear that there is an entire Facebook movement aimed at enlightening the public as to Topix.com’s unethical and hurtful practice of catering to trolls, bigots, racists, hate-mongers, homophobes and jerks. Here’s a link.
I’m beginning to think that Chris Tolles does not want to take a hint from consumer reaction. (He would tell you the numbers speak loudly for themselves, to which I would add, that’s what Hitler would say.)
I’m a little more surprised that Tribune, McClatchy and Gannett are still willing to be associated with this company, but not much.
Paul, I am a part of this Facebook group. They have been writing letters to Tribune, McClatchy and Gannett for months, without reply or action taken.
I found this link which possibly explains why the Media is protecting Topix. Apparently Gannett, Tribune and McClatchy have mounted a joint effort since 2007 to pool advertising revenue from their internet affiliates. Topix is loaded with advertising, in every possible form. This is a big issue. Do their advertisers really want to be associated with the content on Topix? I would think not.
http://paidcontent.org/article/gannett-tribune-and-mcclatchy-to-jointly-sell-online-ads-across-properties/
Topix is the most appalling crap-fest on the internet. Child enticement, pedophilia fantasizers, death threats, relentless abuse, bullying, stalking… it is horrifying. The day it gets shut down by the feds will be a good day. This isn’t free speech, it’s criminal activity. Chris Tolles is a sleazebag on par with the scum who make the “Girls Gone Wild” videos.
I think just about everyone has hit the nail right on the head. Virginia said it best when she commented “it is immoral to provide a forum without ethics.” That basically states how I feel. How absurdly coward is it for users too spineless to even post their name go and attack people often without merit. Topix has forums on incest for goodness sake. Basically the Topix business model is to have no scruples and a lawless society and make money off of destroying others. If that is a good modern business model then I prefer the old way of doing things. Tolles and company don’t want registration of their forums because they prefer some coward to come in under a fake name and start a bunch of crap forcing others to try and defend themselves, and then the bully going back in under another fake name and keep posting, making it appear there is some real interest in the topic.
I think it is a decent enough concept to allow the general public to comment on legit news items like a bill trying to be passed in a local community, etc. However, to have forums that are not moderated and unregistered is ridiculous. If you go to most of the small town forums there isn’t any news there just a bunch of horrible things being said. In other words, Topix is no where close to what it claims to be. Get rid of the forums that serve little purpose like the small town ones and definitely get rid of the drug and sex ones. I noticed Paul talked about the Facebook groups warning about Topix. Actually there are more and more of those being formed and the thing is all of the ones I have seen are being there are parents and adult genuinely concerned about what Topix allows to go on. There doesn’t seem to be any personal vendettas only concerned citizens who want the company to start protecting people and having a better product. Registration is something that is wanted by many including Topix regular users from what I have seen. When Topix own users admit there is a problem with the company that says it all.
I think this article basically sums it up. http://techcrunch.com/2010/08/19/when-attorneys-general-attack/
It sums up the fact that Chris Tolles is unwilling and/or unable to comprehend the harm caused by his site and, instead, tries to make 32 attorneys general appear to be acting purely out of political interest.
Agree with above from Paul Stern.
In all I have ever read from Chris Tolles, he has never in three plus years admitted any mistakes on his or Topix’s part. Tolles is a money-grubbing snake who doesn’t care how many people get stalked, threatened and otherwise harassed.
I agree with most of you concerning Topix, something needs to be done because Topix’s reputation continues to get worse and worse. Did it ever occur to Topix the reason there are articles like the one written here, Attorneys General getting involved and even Topix own regular users wanting more moderation and registration is because the masses don’t like the “business model.” The following is the response I gave on another site where Chris Tolles basically mocked the Attorneys General and my response, I apologize for the length:
MY RESPONSE
Here’s my take. I think we all would like less government in our lives. However, some of you act like this is the only issue attorneys general are working on. They do a ton of things and this happens to be only one of them and it is needed. When the internet first came out, no one could envision how powerful it would become. It is almost a society among itself. For some of us a little bit older, we sometimes underestimate its power.
People that claim Topix is doing nothing more than exercising freedom of speech are looking for an excuse to make a horse’s rear end out of themselves in many cases. If you have the guts to libel someone do it to their face. People have a right to a private life and whether you agree with them or not or how they live, it is their business not yours and if you cannot prove it, you have committed libel.
When you have over 30 attorneys general sign on to something it is because they have received numerous complaints and the issue of cyberbullying is a serious one. I have children and it is a major concern, perhaps some of you do not have kids so you don’t get it or some of you tech people are more concerned with technology than about people. What comes out of one’ s mouth is what is in someone’s heart.
Topix started out a pretty good idea but as someone previously stated greed overtook common decency and common sense. The company decided to allow a free for all with no actual rules (They may as well delete the TOS because it isn’t followed) enforced. Ever since this “agreement” has been reached the forums have gotten even worse because Topix seems to think they are off the hook. It is the responsibility of Attorneys General to listen to people’s complaints and for many people cyberattacks is something very serious. You may or many not get that but Topix affects a lot of people.
What floors me (and I know this is long) is that many of Topix’s own users request registration and more moderation. You would think if nothing else the company would listen to its own users. If a better system were in place, there would be fewer complaints, less threat of lawsuits and dealing with law enforcement, an increased reputation, and a better overall business. When you basically sell your soul, there is ultimately a price to pay.
Topix has stuck a pack of troll thugs onto me and my supporters, who are hacking into our computers, posting our personal information like addresses, hacking into our profiles, threatening our bank accounts, and saying this is all information and passwords handed over to them and sanctioned by Topix.
This thread is a must-follow:
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/topix/TF3D2UNT1MC4J9QB4/p7#c133
“dem: kelly sent me all the passwords you use on your computer. think maybe i’ll make some purchases from artists den today.”
To me it is simple. Start by requiring registration to post, moderate the posts, as others have said eliminate the forums that are not very active (pick a number like say any forum with under 750 posts or have to channel most of their stories from bigger cities), eliminate the ones that are immediate trouble like the Human Sexuality and drug forums (which are harboring illegal activity and that definitely voids out the freedom of speech argument) and do away with people being able to change the location of their posts or the ones who hide behind a proxy. This will not stop some from changing user names and possibly using other computers but it makes it more difficult and Topix could use an IP banning system very easy. It would please all involved, make for better forums, and it would say them thousands in legal fees. Cyberbullying and stalking is big news right now and the company would be wise to make the real changes it needs to. Now THAT would be a good business model.
I have to question the wisdom of using the Topix platform for any purpose. Why not leave the trolls to pick on each other?
Paul, you can’t just leave the trolls to pick on each other because too many innocent people are being libeled and harmed, also having their businesses ruined.
Cyber-bullying can really ruin lives and reputations, and is happening daily on Topix. I have been calling out attack forums on Topix that post people’s real names and slam them, for a long time now.
For Chris Tolles to talk in his Battle terminology about waging “wars” on traditional, ethical media, and then say: “The idea that somehow it is immoral to provide a forum for people is just arrogant and foolish” is inaccurate.
It is immoral to provide un-moderated forums, where people can slander whoever they want to, absolutely.
Topix is even slower than they used to be in removing posts. The forums have gone from bad to worse. Why doesn’t Topix simply require registration, IP banning, and human moderation? They should also delete some of the forums. It would actually help with advertising and reputation and in the long run make them more money. Topix doesn’t want moderation because they are afraid it will hurt their hits. That might happen in the short run but in the long run they will be a stronger company and because of their lack of ethics this is one time the government and Attorney Generals are perfectly justified and actually should do more. Freedom of speech only goes so far and those that don’t understand probably are the ones guilty of libeling and attacking others. Come on Topix!
I think the initial concept of Topix was actually interesting but when you decide to go the route of an unlimited amount of forums, no registration, you basically have gone from what could have been a well-respected valuable website and company to one that promotes trash. The forums are awful and more and more bullies are going on there and trashing whomever because they find some kind of perverse pleasure in that. When you have forums where people are posting about fathers sleeping with their daughters, come on. That cannot be defended in any shape or fashion. While cowards are always going to find ways around things, at least make it harder for them. Require registration with a valid email address, make people check they have read the Terms of Services, have IP banning, and no more hiding behind proxies and list the real location where the posts came from and you will clean the forums up to a degree and you don’t need so many forums. I am a firm believer in Karma and to continue to run a company that has thousands of people including children just isn’t a good idea.
Require registration with a valid email address and have a human moderator for each of your forums and IP banning and you would solve a ton of the problems and it actually might increase advertising so there would still be money to be made by Topix. Currently it is the worst cyberbullying site on the internet not exactly something to be proud of.
I visited a forum and saw a post that had pedophile like remarks in it about Jr. high kids I reported it to topix! of course I do not know how many more reported it, topix promptly removed the thread but did not ban the poster, he was back the next morning trying to start the same thing.
Also this same poster has said that white women that had anything to do with Mexicans should be killed, they remove the thread but not the poster. Topix is pure trash!!!!!!!!!!!
I think Drew has the right ideal.
Sadly, more than two years later and nothing has changed at Topix.com; they remove some comments but not the poster, who uses pseudonyms any way. People might foolishly think they’re talking to more than one person, but it’s just one nutcase.
In my experience, at least from the very little that I saw, some bullies are on there all day and every day, like it’s their job. I have my doubts that some of them are not on Topix.com payroll. As a matter of fact, I know for a fact that Topix changed a comment to something meant to inflame the people reading and keep the fight going. When I complained about going to the authorities, they started visiting my blog.
Too many people have correctly commented that it is a cess pool. After reading Chris Tolles comment, the first one on this page, as if he was biting at the bit to say something, it’s no surprise.
It’s my guess that Chris Tolles is the biggest bully of them all and he’s given like minded bullies, racists, pedophiles and homophobes a platform to do their worst.